Lost and looking for suggestions

[Nettle]

Hi!-

First off, I love this site. I'm learning so much! So I wondered if you knowlageble people could help me.

I live in zone 5, and have had a boring, stright-row vegitable garden for years. But I want more! I want...flowers! :) But I have no idea of how to design something both durrible and pretty. I've never chosen flowering plants before, and am amazed and daunted by the verities listed. So I'm looking for suggestions on what I should start with.

My two main areas this year are a new rock graden I'm installing on an old foundation (it's a cement base with a low 3'' retaining wall and good drainage.) The spot does suffer from partial shade and dappled light from a Maple and a Mulberry tree I don't have the heart to cut down or back.

The other is a set of planting 'boxes'- holes built into the cement backporch of my house. These small boxes (5'X2') are nearly full shade and need new soil...but have good drainage. It would be nice to have something that would climb (the stairs to the back door go up nearly 5').

Sorry for the long post. Any help/sugestions would be apprecited! Please Help!

Thanks in advance :)

[Janie2004]

Hi Nettle.
Ouch! Those things burn and hurt when we walk through them.) :cry:

It sounds fun to start with a new unestablished area.
Do you ever get books from the library on flower gardening?
Some have such wonderful pictures with plant combination ideas.

You will need some nice fresh soil or compost to add to the area.
In my area they give you a big pick-up load FOR FREE from the city.

I love having a pile of this wonderful black compost for whenever I need it. I always put some in the hole when planting something new or transplanting.

I guess for a vine since you are in zone 5, how about a honeysuckle with a new improved red blaze climbing rose planted with it?
Actually I would be glad to send you a start of honeysuckle if you would want to e-mail me your address.
Perhaps we live close as I am in zone 5 also.
My e-mail address is:
janieteel@yahoo.com (Others who want a start can also e-mail me.)
Sincerely, Janie :D

[Newt]

Hi Nettle,

When designing your garden beds, keep in mind that plants look best when massed in odd numbered groups. Think about putting 3, 5 or 7 plants properly spaced together in an area to give more mass to the garden. If your garden is large enough that you can have three groupings or more of plants (odd numbered best for informality), it won't look spotty and give the eye a place to travel to look at color. Since you live in zone 5, you might want to consider some plants in your rock garden that are evergreen, for some winter interest, when there is no snow cover. One that comes to mind is the hardy geranium, with some that are evergreen. There are several that can deal with the part sun conditions. Take a look at these sites for some ideas.
http://www.geraniaceae.com/
http://www.shared-visions.com/explor...s/geranidx.htm

Alpine plants could also work for you in those conditions. Do look for ones that will take part sun. This first one has rock gardens that you can look at and more.
http://www.thealpinegarden.com/ALPG2.htm
http://backyardgardener.com/index2.html

For miniature plants take a look at these sites.
http://www.miniforest.com/
http://www.miniplantkingdom.com/

There are a few low growing grasses and sedges (grass like plants) that will grow in your conditions and give you something other than all those large leaves to look at. They will also give winter interest with their spiky leaves. Consider:
Carex morrowi 'Ice Dance'
http://www.hostas.com/cgi-bin/grass-...l?id=81&sort=3

Carex muskingumensis - variegated palm sedge - different varieties - native that can grow in water or not.
http://www.msue.msu.edu/imp/modzz/00002273.html
Picture
http://www.bluestem.ca/carex-oehme.htm

Acorus gramineus 'Ogon'
Picture
http://montereybaynsy.com/A/acorus%2...us%20ogon2.jpg
http://www.petittigardencenter.com/favorites.php


Hosta will do nicely in shade and part sun, and there are even some that are fragrant. There are many that are very small. This site lists small, miniature and dwarf.
http://www.giboshi.com/

There are small ferns, mosses and some native clump forming plants that come to mind. How about:
Tiarella cordifolia - foam flower - native that will spread but not become invasive.
http://www.theprimrosepath.com/listings/tiarella.htm

Heuchera - coral bells - native, many with lovely colored leaves and hummers like them. Scroll down to the bottom of the page for another page of lovelies.
http://www.theprimrosepath.com/listings/heuchera1.htm

Bergenia cordifolia - heart leafed bergenia - evergreen.
http://www.thegardenhelper.com/bergenia.html

Epimedium - watch the zones on these as not all are hardy to zone 5.
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog...nt/page29.html

Pulmonaria - lungwort - many with lovely speckled leaves and pretty bell shaped pink flowers that turn blue as they age, blooming in spring.
http://www.millcreekgardensohio.com/...nderson%20.jpg
I have this one called Pulmonaria saccharata 'Mrs. Moon', which is an older variety.
http://www.marysplantfarm.com/_photo...a_mrs_moon.jpg

Ferns for dry shade include:
Dryopteris - wood fern - native with many varieties.
http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature...ryopteris.html

Polystichum polyblepharum - holly fern or Japanese tassel fern - in the wood fern family.
http://www.floridata.com/main_fr.cfm...s/contents.cfm

There are also lovely spring blooming bulbs that will have sunlight before your trees leaf out that would extend the season. Consider many of the small daffodils (some fragrant), puschkinia, triteleia (native), chionodoxa (glory of the snow - some only grow 6" tall), iris reticulata, scilla, muscari (the leaves will appear in fall by themselves and then again in spring with the flowers - fragrant), crocus, snowdrops, etc. Take a look here for ideas.
http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/cgi-bin/bulbs2/

If you think you would like some moss in the very shady spots and as a foil to other plants, take a look here.
http://www.mossacres.com/moss/default.asp

You might want to consider limbing up your trees or even thinning them a little to let in more light. If done properly, it could actually enhance the look and health of the trees.
http://www.arborday.org/media/stormsectionf.html
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/pruning_mature.asp

For your planting boxes in shade, I'm wondering if the holes built into the cement back porch of your house are at ground level or raised above. This could affect whether or not perennials will survive in your zone over winter. If the boxes are raised and the soil freezes and thaws, that could kill the root systems if you don't find a way to insulate them. If you can insulate them or they are sunken into the ground, consider clematis. There are several varieties that will grow and bloom on a north facing wall. Watch the hardiness zones on these, though most will be fine in your zone. Give clematis a year or two to establish a large root system before expecting to see lots of flowers. You might want to plant some annuals like impatiens around the base to shade the roots and give a fuller look.
http://stores.yahoo.com/chalkhillcle...sforshade.html
Lots of helpful info here on planting, pruning and growing them. If you need more, let me know.
http://store.yahoo.com/chalkhillclematis/order.html

I agree with Janie about adding organic material to the planting beds and boxes. Try mixing 60% soil with 40% compost.

As for Janie's offer of the honeysuckle, I think she is referring to the Japanese or Hall's honeysuckle which gets very large and is invasive in the environment. You can see if it's invasive in your state with a search at www.google.com by putting your in the search box:
your state + invasive

Hope this is helpful.
Newt

[Nettle]

Thanks, Newt!

All I can say is WOW! I have been going through the sites and these are some very good ideas! I now have a general concept to work from. Thanks again!

::Happily ploting:: :D

[Newt]

Nettle,
You're very welcome! Glad you liked those sites. Good luck with your project.

Newt