Planting on a slope or bank.

[creekcowboy]

Hello everyone! In my back yard I have a little creek that is spring fed and runs pretty much all year. It is approx. 1-3 ft wide depending on the rain water. It is only about 6-7 ft away from the house and runs staight or parrallel with the side of my house to the front yard. So, I have sloped ground to the creek on both sides. I sprayed it with round up before winter and the weeds and crabgrass browned rather nicely. In the spring I plan to till it and plant wildflowers on the banks so I don't have to run the weedeater every 2 weeks! It will look alot better also. How could I plant them so they won't be washed away with the april showers. Could you give me some hints on some wildflowers for zone 5-6. I wish I knew how to put a picture of it on here but I'm pretty computer illiterate. I have Wyoming wildflowers(300 seeds) called Indian Paintbrush, I don't know if they will survive here though. It doesn't state a zone on the packet. Sorry for the long explanation. Thanks for your time.-Chad

[Newt]

Hi Creekcowboy,
Sounds like you have a lovely spot and are very fortunate to be able to be a guardian of nature with a creek on your property. With that said I'd like to first give you some information about Round Up and waterways. It is most important that you know that using Round Up (or any herbicide in or near a waterway is highly toxic to fish, frogs, toads, birds and other wildlife. Many people feel that since the herbicide isn't sprayed directly into the water that it's no problem. Spraying as you have done will cause the Round Up to be washed into the water when it rains and kill scores of insects and fish. Here's a site from Monsanto, who is the manufacturer, that should be helpful for you in the future. Please especially read numbers 6 and 12. If you would like more sites, please don't hesitate to ask, as I have several.

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/M...SDS25jan01.htm

An environmenatally friendlier solution could be vinegar, not the household stuff that is only 5%, but the stronger stuff. Here's some info for you on that.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2002/020515.htm
http://www.greensense.net/vinegarmsds.html
http://www.greensense.net/vinegar.html
http://www.savvygardener.com/Reviews...d_vinegar.html

Here's another site that you should find very helpful and informative.
http://www.ondelmarva.com/

In the spring I plan to till it and plant wildflowers on the banks so I don't have to run the weedeater every 2 weeks!

I would suggest that you don't till as you will be stirring up weed seeds that were dormant and will have the same problem. Besides, there are many annual weeds that will have already dropped their seeds before you sprayed and they will just be spread more by tilling. I would suggest that you pull the browned weeds as soon as the soil is thawed enough, trying to get as much of the roots as possible and keep pulling weeds as they appear. The idea is to pull or cut at ground level as soon as they appear so their root systems won't develop large enough to become a problem later and they won't go to seed.

Your indian paintbrush is known botanically as Castilleja coccinea and is an annual or biennial herb that needs other host plants nearby for survival. They like wet open spots and should do well in your spot if you have the proper hosts. Take a look at these sites. The first one is a bit technical, but should be helpful.

http://www.newfs.org/pdf/Castillejacoccinea.pdf
http://wisplants.uwsp.edu/scripts/DE...?SpCode=CASCOC

You can research plants at www.google.com by putting the botanical or Latin name if you know it. If you don't, try using the common name and click on 'Images' and see if you can id the plant and get the botanical name. Then search using that name for more info.

If you are concerned about the seed being washed away in spring I would suggest winter sowing outdoors to get them started. It's a rather simple process and easy to do. Here's the FAQ's site at Garden Web that explains how. They have a forum devoted to the subject.
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/wtrsow/

I would suggest that you look for plants that like bog conditions or can take flooding and dry conditions as the stream raises and lowers. There are many natives that will be easier to maintain and offer lots of food and shelter to wildlife. Here's some sites that you should find helpful.
http://www.nps.gov/plants/pubs/nativesMD/lists.htm
http://gardening.about.com/cs/msubnativema/index.htm
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...ents/7447z.pdf

Don't hesitate to ask for more sites and don't worry about your post being long. The more info you supply the better. :)

Regards,
Newt

[creekcowboy]

Newt, first of all thanks for all the information! It took me a while to read it all but I read every website and page. They all were very informative and I learned alot of helpful ideas. The second thing I did was contact fish & boat commission and they referred me to someone who could look at the creek and determine if it was a tributary or waterway. I felt horrible after reading about Roundup. He showed me his maps and it turned out to be neither a tributary or waterway. We also found out that it is basically existing from run-off from all the adjacent areas. We live in the low spot of the whole area. There is some type of 6 in. drain tile comes up out of the ground at the back of my property line, he said it looked like an old field drain or irrigation pipe. He has no clue why this pipe is there. There used to be an old greenhouse years ago on the site we built on I found out through the township board. This would explain why the creek is going dry in the hot-dry summers. We had quite the day of exchanging stories and information. My wife and I made him dinner for coming out to help us, he said it was his slow season. Thank goodness he came when he did, we just got pounded with 14 in. of snow and it hasn't stopped yet! He thought I didn't do much harm and to research next time. I told him thanks to Newt I had already started the process. He said he wouldn't even call it a creek or stream just a runoff ditch that happens to run alot because of the low spot location of the area. This would explain it getting green and slimy, almost stagnant at times during the summer, but it is pretty in the spring. Oh well, I learned quite a bit this week, I feel like I'm back in school again. I would do it everyday to be one with nature! Thanks again for all your help Newt! Chad-creekcowboy

[pruninggal]

Chad, that's great that you took the time and found out So Much info! Newt is always giving so much info. I'm impressed you read it all :) Keep us updated with what you decide to do, it's always great to hear followup stories.

Katy (pruninggal)

[Newt]

Chad, wow, I'm impressed that you read all that and took those steps. It's heartwarming to know that you care so very much. I also appreciate you letting me know what you've done. I really like knowing what folks do with the info I share and find the feedback helpful in helping others as well.

I'd love to see photos when your project is done.
Best of luck with it.
Newt

[creekcowboy]

Newt, the site on the Indian Paintbrush was pretty technical like you said it would be. I got the overview of things but failed to see them give any names of host plants to put with them. The spot I have gets plenty of sun and stays fairly wet to moist. This part is good from what I read. I was just confused on the host plant term and examples. I just want those slopes loaded with a thick cover of color. I'm checking about wildflower mixes for zone 5-6, but I just need to know if I can mix them with the paintbrush seeds. Even though I would like to plant in the spring, the packet and sites say late fall. I'm going to listen because I really want them to do well. If I recall correctly the site said they grew better by themselves like in a field or meadow environment. The seeds I have are Castilleja sp. which the packet said that they were perennials. Do they mean self sowing? The packet said that they were the red flowering type. They are a beautiful flower, that's all I know. Having a tubular flower it sounds like they would attract hummingbirds, maybe I should plant other hummingbird attractors with them. We just got a digital camera, so the whole process with taking pictures and learning how to send them will take some time, but you better believe I'll send you some when I figure it out. Maybe Hummernut can help me out on the attracting question? HEY HUMMERNUT! ARE YOU READING?? HELP! Newt, it has been great talking to you and thanks again for all your help! Chad

[creekcowboy]

Katy(pruningal), thanks for the kind words. I'll keep ya posted when I learn the digital camera process and I'll send some photo's soon. I probably plant in late fall this year so it will be a while. I can send photo's of my perennial garden though.
P.S. I could use a pruning lesson though. I'll visit the website! I only have shrubs, roses, butterfly bushes and a Russian sage bush. Oh and something I don't know what it is, but I'll send pictures when it blooms.
Talk to ya soon- Chad(creekcowboy)

[Newt]

Hey Chad,
I read your post to Katy too and I've got some sites on wildflowers, butterflies, hummers and pruning. Uh oh, looks like you won't be able to get away from your computer again. :o

For the indian paintbrush, I would plant them by themselves in a large group with something between them and other wildflowers that won't take over the world. Maybe a native grass that clumps instead of running or seeding all about.

For wildflowers:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/c...ets/index.html
http://inspirezone.org/wildflowerindex.html
http://2bnthewild.com/
http://www.rockislandwildflowers.com/main.asp
http://www.wild-flowers.com/
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/wildseed/
http://www.bhwp.org/

For the birds:
http://birding.about.com/cs/gardening/?once=true&
http://gardening.about.com/library/w...=2760&cob=home
http://www.pineridgegardens.com/birdfood.htm#plants
http://www.kountrykravings.com/wildbird.htm
http://www.stokesbirdsathome.com/
http://www.gwf.org/swhshrub.htm
http://hummingbirdwebsite.com/

Don't know if you're handy with tools and like to make things, but here's a couple of sites on building birdhouses that you can save for later.
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/t...s/birdhous.htm
http://birding.about.com/library/blh...htm?once=true&

Interesting magazine, though a bit pricey.
http://www.wildflowermag.com/

For the butterflies:
http://butterflywebsite.com/
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/d...sa/bflyusa.htm
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/2...t/families.htm

Lots of info here on several topics.
http://www.freeplants.com/

Pruning info
http://www.communigate.co.uk/london/...b/page14.phtml
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/HO-4.pdf
http://www.gilmour.com/Pruning_Tools/Pruning_Hedges.asp
http://www.gardenseeker.com/Pruning%20made%20easy.htm
http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/en.../feb88pr2.html
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...333020,00.html

For starting seeds my favorite way is winter sowing. It's easy and pretty carefree. Since it's soooo cold right now I probably won't start until the first week in February.
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/wtrsow/
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/seed/
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/seedsave/

Remember you can save these and read them at your leisure. Hope I haven't thrown too much at you.
Newt

[creekcowboy]

Newt, my little girl finally let me finish my reading tonight! :lol: Thanks for the great sites. I learned alot from the free plants website. I can really relate to Mike's background, simple and to the point, a country boy blessing! I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned from him. What a great way to go to work every morning! I could only dream of such a great job. I'm definitely going to try the winter sowing process to try and give them a headstart. It was -10 here this morning, so I won't be able to start anytime soon. I have some large plastic pretzel containers from Sam's club I'm going to use. How many seeds do you think I could put in them to start. I have a packet of 300 seeds. I like the Indian grass or little bluestem to go with the indian paintbrush. I think I may throw in a couple pots of Japenese Bloodgrass ( imperata cylindrica) it's hardy from zones 5-10 for added color. What do you know about wiegela or weeping weigela bushes? I'm going to buy one in the spring. I'll keep ya posted when the construction starts with pictures to follow. Thanks again!-Chad

[Newt]

Hi Chad,
So glad you liked all those sites. I do remember what it was like to have little ones around. Sometimes you wonder if you'll ever have time alone. Then they grow up and move on and you miss them so.

That Free Plants site has lots of useful info. I agree that Mike sure is a lucky guy. I find that the older I get the more I want to live in the woods with nothing but critters for neighbors!

Glad you like the winter sowing idea. I usually wait until there's a warm up in February to plant and put them out in a shady spot. I use plastic containers that you get at the salad counter in the grocery store. They'er just deep enough and have a lid. I puncture holes in the lids for air flow and the bottoms for drainage. I think the pretzel containers will work, but don't sow too many seeds in one container. You'll need to either get in there with a small pair of scissors and thin out by cutting at the soil line (baby finger nail scissors work well) or take the entire mess out when the roots fill the space and gently tease them apart. The tops can be narrow on those pretzel jugs when you have to get your hands in and work and you don't want to put in too much earth either as it will stay too soggy. (Having fun yet?) :roll: Maybe you could cut them down in size and use a plastic wrap with holes for a top. Try filling about 4" deep. Sow the seeds like they recommend on the packet or the seedlings will be too crowded and won't grow well. I've found if they don't get a good start they never seem to recover. Been there... If you have any flats and those six packs that annual bedding plants come in you could even sow in those. Just 3 seeds to a compartment. You can put in some type of stakes, maybe twigs, and cover with a dry cleaning bag. The less you have to handle them the better. Take a look at the germination rate if it's on the packet. That will give you an idea of about how many you'll get from the 300. Gosh, that's a lot of plants. Hope you have enough pots to move them up to. If not, let me know and I'll try and come up with some ideas.

The bluestem should be really nice. Maybe you could use both grasses if you're going to do a meadow effect. I just love the blood grass, especially with light from behind in the evening. Looks like it's on fire. Beautiful. Do check on google to see if it's invasive in your area. I remember reading something about it somewhere. You can search with the botanical name, quotes and a plus sign like this:
"imperata cylindrica" + invasive

I don't know too much about weigela as I've never grown them, but a friend of mine had some old fashioned ones. They are pretty when in bloom and would look nice in the summer with a summer blooming clematis scrambling on top of it to make it look like it's blooming again. You'll need to get a clematis that gets pruned hard so it won't overwhelm the shrub. Oh, the weigela look awful in the winter, so don't give them a prominent winter spot.

I can't wait to see the pictures! I do miss the warm weather. My son is in Peru and it's summer there. He rubbed it in when I told him of the coming snow and the cold temps and said he was sitting in his garden this afternoon in shorts and barefoot enjoying the flowers in full bloom.

Stay warm and don't hesitate to ask more questions.
Newt