1st timer in need of help/ideas/suggestions

[Tabias]

Greetings all!


I recently started my first garden. After searching around for a vegetable gardening forum, I think this is it. I figure I'll need help sooner or later, probably sooner.

This is what I have going so far. It's going to be quite long so bare with me please.

I recently moved into my great-grandmothers old house. She passed away last year at 102 years of age. The property the house is on was once a hotel that burnt down 60 or 70 years ago. I have half the backyard fenced off for when my dog is outside. The other half consists of a porch, a large shed and a path from the porch to the shed. On one side of the path it is grass, on the other she had laid down a green turf mat for whatever reason. This green turf ran the distance of the yard next to a cement walkway that rounds the house. So I tore up a section of this turf to start my garden. There are several large trees around the home and I've heard that tree roots usually extend as far out as the branches. Well, some of these tree branches extend over the area of my future garden.

I found an old tilling tool, one of those claws, in the shed. I started tilling the area with this tool and found many small roots. The dirt itself is very fine, I'm not very knowledgeable about dirt, but I recognized it as possibly being a clean fill dirt. It does not have any rocks in it for about 6 or 7 inches down. It is very soft. Once the claw got below its reach, which happens to be 6/7 inches or so, I started hitting roots and fist sized and smaller rocks. So I pulled out a shovel and started digging. I read a bit online and determined that it would not hurt the tree if I tore the roots out, as long as they were smaller than my wrist, which they are. So I tore all the roots out and got the rocks out. I've tilled and mixed the dirt thoroughly and it seems to be a very good spot now.

Also, not only were there roots but I found remnants of the old hotel that burnt down. There were chunks of decomposing burnt wood and roofing shingles. Old rusty roofing nails and various other items. I haven't researched it yet, but I am sure all this junk is good for the soil. All the largest roots were concentrated around one pile of burnt wood. I had a time breaking it all apart, but I am sure it will help the soil, so I left all the burnt particle in the ground. It's about 1 1/2 to 2 feet down from the top soil.

I tore apart the turf and lined the area around the garden that the tree roots were coming from. Hopefully this will keep them out, at least for this years growing season.

So the gardening area is about 10'x7'. There is also another small area about 2'x2' that I was planning on growing strawberries. I wasn't sure how many bags of compost I would need so I grabbed two. The back of bag says to have at least two inches so have figured I will need at least 4 or 5 more bags which I will get tomorrow. I then started making two rows upon the two bags I had dumped. Well, first I tilled it. I think I can plant 4 or 5 Roma tomato plants on one row, the rows will run the 10' way. I planted 4 so far on the first row.

And that's all I have planted so far. I have seeds for various veggies. Cucumber, misc. peppers, zucchini, carrots, broccoli, misc. lettuce/spinach. Not sure if it is better to start with seeds or the little seedling plants you can get, so I bought the ready to plant kind of the Roma tomatoes, some big boys, some broccoli, jalapeno, habenero, leafy red lettuce, cilantro and zucchini, strawberry.

I'm afraid if I plant the seeds they won't grow. Or I won't plant them right. So I've stocked up on ones that are ready to plant. I think I might also have too little room for everything I am expecting to plant. Most of the seed packets say to space the plants 1' or more apart and rows 2' apart.. I'll only have 4 maybe 5 rows with 4-6 plants on each. Is this an okay amount of space and an okay amount of vegetables?

I also bought some "tomato food" which is Whitney farms organic fertilizer. It's 4-5-3. I have no idea how to apply this to the plants or soil. I'm not sure if I need to put anything else in the soil. The farthest I dug down it appeared to be clay. I didn't want to mix it with the soil so I didn't dig into it. And I live in zone 7 I believe. I really don't want to put pesticides on the plants or soil, so the compost I bought is organic as well as the tomato food. Should I buy lady bugs or praying mantis'? Are they good for keeping out potential pests?
Are tomato cages necessary for all types of tomato plants? Should I get cages for the cucumber or any other veggies? Any other useful tips?

Sorry for the long post, just want to get this right :D
Thanks for any help and I sincerely appreciate it!

[Newt]

Hi Tabias,

Congratulations on your 'new' home. It sounds like you have an incredible home. Your great-grandmother must have been quite a person! My mother is 92 and still giving everyone a hard time.

There are several large trees around the home and I've heard that tree roots usually extend as far out as the branches. Well, some of these tree branches extend over the area of my future garden.

You heard correctly. That could be a potential problem for you when it comes to the soil drying out from the tree roots and allelopathic effects from certain trees. I'm sure you've heard that it's difficult to grow anything near a walnut tree. Pecans and hickory trees are also a problem for growing tomatoes. This site is about companion planting and lists good and bad companions. If you scroll down to tomatoes you will see that info. If you continue to scroll down you will see what other trees are not good companions for other veggies and fruits.
http://www.moonsweb.com/companions.shtml

I read a bit online and determined that it would not hurt the tree if I tore the roots out, as long as they were smaller than my wrist, which they are. So I tore all the roots out and got the rocks out. I've tilled and mixed the dirt thoroughly and it seems to be a very good spot now.

I'm not sure where you read that, but it's best to cut the roots, not tear them. Any cuts or tears can make the tree vulnerable to disease, especially with the introduction of food crops. You will need to monitor your trees carefully for future problems. It can take 2 years or more before you see problems.

Also, not only were there roots but I found remnants of the old hotel that burnt down. There were chunks of decomposing burnt wood and roofing shingles. Old rusty roofing nails and various other items. I haven't researched it yet, but I am sure all this junk is good for the soil.

The nails shouldn't be any problem other then you getting cut. Do be sure to be up to date on your shots if you get cut by a rusty nail.

The burnt wood shouldn't be a problem as it's been there for so long. Wood ashes tend to raise the pH of the soil, making it more alkaline. Most plants prefer a soil between neutral to slightly acid, but again that has been there so long I don't think it will be a problem. You can always get a pH test kit from a hardware store to see where your pH level is.

The roofing shingles give me some cause for concern. Most roof shingles are made with asphalt, a petroleum product. Older asphalt shingles were made with asbestos in the paper! That could be a problem. You might want to get those shingles tested. If you do have asbestos in your soil, it should not be disturbed! As long as it's not disturbed and in the soil, it's not a problem. It's when the particles become airborne that it becomes a problem. Probably too late now, but for future digging.
http://www.construction-index.com/us...t-shingles.asp
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/7747scit6.html

I tore apart the turf and lined the area around the garden that the tree roots were coming from.

What did you line it with?

So the gardening area is about 10'x7'. There is also another small area about 2'x2' that I was planning on growing strawberries. I wasn't sure how many bags of compost I would need so I grabbed two. The back of bag says to have at least two inches so have figured I will need at least 4 or 5 more bags which I will get tomorrow.

Here's a compost calculator in case you want to figure out if you have enough. I usually recommend a 4" layer of compost mixed into the soil of a new garden, but if you already have nice soil, the 2" will do.
http://www.cedar-grove.com/compost_calculator.asp

I think I can plant 4 or 5 Roma tomato plants on one row, the rows will run the 10' way. I planted 4 so far on the first row.

Sounds good. Tomatoes usually need about 2' of space.

I have seeds for various veggies. Cucumber, misc. peppers, zucchini, carrots, broccoli, misc. lettuce/spinach. Not sure if it is better to start with seeds or the little seedling plants you can get, so I bought the ready to plant kind of the Roma tomatoes, some big boys, some broccoli, jalapeno, habenero, leafy red lettuce, cilantro and zucchini, strawberry.

Considering where you live, I think at this late date you would do better with transplants instead of seeds for your warm season veggies. The carrots, broccoli, lettuce and spinach prefer the cooler weather, so you should be able to plant the seeds in summer so they'll be ready for harvest in fall. You should find these sites very helpful.
http://urbanext.illinois.edu/veggies/directory.html
http://www.gardening.cornell.edu/hom...scene0391.html

Here's a handy site on when to start what plants. You'll need to know your first and last expected frost dates. That's the second link.
http://www.chestnut-sw.com/growform.htm
http://www.victoryseeds.com/frost/

Here's more help on when to plant what. This site is from Kansas which is in hardiness zone 5. I think you are in zone 6, so the dates are close.
http://www.savvygardener.com/Feature..._calendar.html

You can check your hardiness zone here.
http://www.gardenweb.com/zones/zip.cgi
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/c...ps/IDhardy.jpg

When to harvest veggies.
http://www.savvygardener.com/Feature...egetables.html
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C935.pdf

If your zucchini is the vining type and not the bush type, you might want to make this trellis for anything you grow that is a vine.
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/vegetabletrellis

I think I might also have too little room for everything I am expecting to plant. Most of the seed packets say to space the plants 1' or more apart and rows 2' apart.. I'll only have 4 maybe 5 rows with 4-6 plants on each. Is this an okay amount of space and an okay amount of vegetables?

I'm so tired right now I can't think. Try making a plan of your garden with graph paper and sketch out your veggies.

I also bought some "tomato food" which is Whitney farms organic fertilizer. It's 4-5-3. I have no idea how to apply this to the plants or soil. I'm not sure if I need to put anything else in the soil.

The directions for the 'tomato food' should be on the container. As far as anything else in the soil, without a soil test you won't know. I've been planting veggies and flowers for years and have never had a soil test. I add lots of compost, use organic fertilizers from time to time and don't use sprays. The good bugs take care of the bad bugs. I plant flowers that will attract beneficial insects and don't have any problems to speak of.

If you really want a soil test done, your local extension service is the best and least expensive place to go.
http://www.extension.uidaho.edu/

Should I buy lady bugs or praying mantis'? Are they good for keeping out potential pests?

Naa. Unless you have pests and there are enough for them to eat, you'll be wasting your money. Every year I find egg cases for praying mantids in my shrubs. When I prune the shrubs I always look for them. If I have to cut off that twig, I just stick it back into the shrub until my little workers have hatched. Mine are a little browner then these.
http://www.ppdl.org/dd/id/praying_mantis.html

Are tomato cages necessary for all types of tomato plants?

Probably. I find it helps. You can purchase cages or make your own.
http://www.mastergardeners.org/picks...o_staking.html
http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/...ndex.php?ind=4
http://www.foogod.com/~torquill/barefoot/weave.html

Should I get cages for the cucumber or any other veggies?

Probably best to make the trellis I gave you a link for.

Any other useful tips?

Start a compost pile and have fun!

Sorry for the long post, just want to get this right :D

The only problem with the long post was the time needed to be able to answer you. No problem if you don't mind waiting a day or two.

Newt

[Newt]

I almost forgot that there are several helpful links for the veggie garden here. Scroll 1/3 of the way down the page.
http://backyardgardener.com/veg/

Newt